the state of shows as of december 2009

[age of quarrel]

[Mikey]

Maybe it's because I'm a posi-loser but I have to say violence never works in response to anything. It only makes us look bad, hostility and violence should only be met with the minimum amount of force to stop (IE holding people back or old school full nelsons as opposed to fists) it and show that it is not acceptable in our scene, from within or outside of our community. Participating in fights doesn't help anything. However I'm with my homie Voltaire "I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it" except he said it in french...so..fuck off I can't remember how to say all that in french. DEAL WITH IT.

[Hollow]

I dunno Mikey. I mean, for sure there are a good amount of times when violence is unnecessary and unwarranted. But I can think of a lot of times when a beat down happened that was epically deserved. There's a large swath of moral grey area surrounding this concept, and I just can't see the use of absolutes as a proper response to a fairly sticky subject.

[Mikey]

I dunno Mikey. I mean, for sure there are a good amount of times when violence is unnecessary and unwarranted. But I can think of a lot of times when a beat down happened that was epically deserved. There's a large swath of moral grey area surrounding this concept, and I just can't see the use of absolutes as a proper response to a fairly sticky subject.

I could never disagree with what you've just said. There are often grey areas, and times when action is required a lot sooner than you'd like, leaving little time to really analyse a moment. So I'd like to rephrase it as "whenever possible, avoid violence" which, I know almost everyone already would here.

[age of quarrel]

are you ready for this?

[Mikey]

are you ready for this?

quoting hunter for quoting himself. what's that about? it's like laughing at your own joke. not cool bro.

[Mikey]

also I have to say I firmly believe that no response works without a united front, ie No Violence only works if everyone backs it. Which is incredibly hard to get since as you just mentioned Willa, there are huge grey areas sometimes and it can be hard to take a definite side. Sometimes I like my misanthropic/psuedo existential/taoism....Misanexistoism

[Rude Boy Puff]

also I have to say I firmly believe that no response works without a united front, ie No Violence only works if everyone backs it. Which is incredibly hard to get since as you just mentioned Willa, there are huge grey areas sometimes and it can be hard to take a definite side. Sometimes I like my misanthropic/psuedo existential/taoism....Misanexistoism

Where I grew up the hardcore scene was very big on dont fight, but be ready too. The respect through fear mentality was only directed at assholes. Wasnt always perfect but it worked

[Mikey]

Puff, Willa, etc I'd be really interested in more discussion with all of you about this topic. For instance, I definitely feel like you're right Puff, that a "don't fight but be ready to" response seems to effective. And yet I just can't full back it. It's hard to fight a group of 30-50 kids/adults that won't fight back other than blocking punches and stopping the attack. Otherwise I can only believe that to the asshole types that cause us problems, you take a chance of two responses a) they indeed leave like cordell. b) they take a "you bring a knife, we bring a bigger knife, you have a gun so we bring a bigger gun" style response. And start to think that we're going to give them the fight they're looking for. Which would probly just end up in use needing to call the cops eventually on people causing trouble. Which seems like it can be avoided (again SOMETIMES it can) and save us all the trouble of repeated offenders by showing that we just won't participate or allow it.
I dunno, there are flaws in what I'm saying for sure, which is why I'm sayin' bring on the discussion and show me the other side to this. Lately we've been lucky (from what I understand) with shows and not had a lot of issues. Respect breeds respect usually. Even when it's hard to give, is the best time to give it. Hostility met with positivity? This is certainly a complex type of issue. Anyone is free to discuss it with me at future events/shows/hang outs. i'm always down.

[ebony]

i doubt anyone here has a problem with mixed shows and we have actually had lots of those. where were you? not there, apparently.

[Jordan f.]

violence at shows is pretty straight forward in my opinion. Avoid it as much as possible but if someone is trying to ruin something I love by trashing venues or attacking others etc. I am going to do something about it. Violent or non-violent.

[Rude Boy Puff]

speaking of violence
Emmure is playing VIHC fest this year

[grind/bro]

hahahhahahahahhahaha

[Rude Boy Puff]

you know I make fun of them so much Im actually starting to like them and its a little scary.
if you see me in a flat brim just shiv me with anything at arms reach and forget I ever existed, cause I think its happening

[KYLESTYLE]

i don't think anyone here supports inciting violence, so it's basically a theoretical discussion of violence (which is fair), but when the dude punches your friend in the face for no apparent reason, that's when your thought experiments hit the bricks. I'd like to think that i speak from experience; i don't support violence but there have been a number of times now where I've been ganged up on (shows and non-shows) and i had to fight back or run. i'm still with martin luther and ghandi though, i just don't quite know how to practice non-violence. overall, i don't like resorting to animalistic nature, but i am one and sometimes it's fight or flight.

"with a mind far greater than just a fucking fist"

[Hollow]

i doubt anyone here has a problem with mixed shows and we have actually had lots of those. where were you? not there, apparently.

Eb, you forgot to quote. What are you responding to here?

[Mikey]

kyle i have to respect what you say. especially for you having experienced that kind of situation, whereas I've only ever been a target of verbal abuse, and not the target of physical things. and if my past experiences are any note, having jumped in to help friends in fights, i am definitely not one to throw stones so to speak. i'd like to think i'd know how to react if i were beaten up, but i don't. most likely i'd just get my ass kicked. I support self defense, but there always has to be a line drawn is what I am trying to get at I suppose? Violence sucks, and really I don't see defending yourself against an attack as violence anyway. that said i'm a skinny little fuck and i'd probably get a beating even if i did fight back.

[amanda]

Despite the mildly negative "bad shit went down or almost did" tone here. I am pretty excited to move back to victoria and go to shows. Vancouver is bigger but therefore harder to get into the scene and it's nerdy but goddamn this forum made me wish I knew you guys better/wasn't so shy at shows. Vihc ftw.

[Jordan f.]

Violence sucks

I dabbled in pacifism once, not in Nam of course

[Mikey]

amanda we're all pretty much just dorks, everyone would probably encourage you to talk to us more. and Jordan! that was you? man, charlie in the trees! CHARLIE IN THE TREES MAN. Nam, never forget.